Comments on: Why all the hate?

By: Troy

Troy — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:54:10 +0000

Java doesn’t offer me any interesting opportunities. Sure, it runs on mobile phones but I can’t realistically get my hobbyist software explorations on actual handset. Sure, it runs in the browser, but Flash Player 9 with AVM2 is a far superior multimedia platform in featureset and market penetration — it’s truly the write once run anywhere platform.

Really, what does Java offer me in regards to opportunity?

By: microsoft is crap

microsoft is crap — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:35:34 +0000

JAVA anybody?

By: Dan MacDonald

Dan MacDonald — Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:33:37 +0000

I think I would hate Microsoft too if I mixed .Net and Access. :P

By: Troy

Troy — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:30:08 +0000

A little side-tracked, but I often hear the quote (usually on Slashdot) that MS tends to “screw developers.” While I’ll not defend some of their business practices in regards to other, potentially competing businesses, what track record do they have of screwing users that are developers, i.e. customers of VisualStudio, C# developers, ASP.NET developers, etc.?

And I don’t think the example of being able to develop for other consoles really counts. I don’t know of any console that can be developed on without some form of hardware modifcation (in the case of GB/GBA, it’s a custom flash card setup). In other words, it was unsanctioned and unofficial, thus intrinsicly limited in its potential audience. It’s simply not debatable whether more people will try this out than would sodder a mod chip into their Xbox to do the exact same thing…

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about the usefulness of the niche. I most certainly expect to be proven correct when sometime next year everyone is buying Creator’s Club memberships just so they can download and play that cool game some hobbyist made. I think it’s short-sighted not to expect exactly that.

By: Craig

Craig — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:29:05 +0000

Actually, I’m an experienced .net dev, and regularly use Access as a front end for my clients when they want more extensability than a database-linked web page provides. So I’m not blindly anti-MS. I’m coldly, rationally anti-MS because I use their products every day, often for development purposes.

I’m not speaking out of my buttocks: MS tends to screw the developer. “Tends” meaning “sometimes they wait a little while first”.

I’m glad there is an opportunity to develop for a console. Of course, we’ve been able to develop for Gameboy for years and years, and I’m not sure what hobbyist could possibly use the power of the 360… if they could, wouldn’t they be making a product which is probably sellable?

No, I don’t think the niche is very useful, and I don’t trust the guys in charge of the niche. To me, it looks like saying, “hey, look, there’s a new room built on the fifteenth floor! Sure it’s small and dank and we know that the construction company’s last eighteen projects got them in trouble for safety violations… but, hey, more floor space!”

By: Troy

Troy — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:51:23 +0000

Why? Because it’s the only real, useful way to develop for a console for the average person? Because it’s an incredibly inexpensive way for an indie to create a demo for pitching to publishers? Because it’s yet one more opportunity to make games with different constraints (controller, TV, living room, etc.)?

And again, it’s a shitty distribution model is you’re out to make money, which is not its goal. You’re in no way chaining yourself to MS (you own everything, it’s as Windows-specific as 99% of the software world, which means it practically doesn’t matter).

But, if one does not like MS for fanatical reasons, then why would I expect one to like anything they offer?

By: Craig

Craig — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 05:11:58 +0000

I’m glad I was wrong when I thought XNA’s primary dev software was a GG port. Maybe it will turn out to be good. I know it’s a good set-up for teaching purposes.

But the idea of limiting myself to a particular shitty distribution model, chaining myself to a known screwer-of-developers, and working with a product that does not seem any better TO HOBBYISTS than many existing products…. Why?

By: Troy

Troy — Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:05:33 +0000

You’re both still missing the point.

First, it sure is hell isn’t zero cost for MS… they’re distributing the software for free, and it sure as hell wasn’t free to develop it. Sure, there’s the $100 annual subscription for the Xbox360-side of things, but that’s really just to subsidize the fact that there will be some diminishment of licensed title sales as a result.

Second, this isn’t a platform for indie gamedev in the sense of Manifesto games! There is no commercial/retail space. Microsoft has been very clear that this is targetted at hobbyists, not indie shops. If you judge it by the criteria of indies-wanting-to-make-games-to-make-money, etc., then of course it’ll fall flat: that’s not it’s goal!

By: Patrick

Patrick — Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:10:28 +0000

Why waste all the effort trying to build it up? Why all the love?

Indie devs have platforms, what we really need is project based funding channels.

By: Ramification

Ramification — Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:03:48 +0000

They not be opening Xbox360 to indie development.
They be profiting money at zero cost without any return compensation as well as supplying their console with freeware software at zero cost (which equals to profiting money).
Why create freeware for the Xbox? There be plenty of platforms in need of freeware.